Trish Kritek (she/her): Well welcome everybody. My name's Trish critic. I am a professor in the Department of Medicine and the Vice Team for Faculty Affairs in the School of Medicine. It's a pleasure to welcome you all to this afternoon. Workshop focused on walking through conflict, and it's truly my pleasure to welcome Dr. Sarah Kim, who is
Trish Kritek (she/her): a research professor in the department of Surgery and the Associate Dean for educational quality improvement.
Trish Kritek (she/her): who is really the lead and inspiration for this workshop. She is also an expert both in our world and beyond in conflict management, and has skills as training, both as a coach and as a mediator. So it's really a pleasure to get to work and teach with Sarah, and i'm so glad to have her here today, so welcome to all of you
Trish Kritek (she/her): and welcome to Sarah. I'm going to begin by just kind of going through some some things that are important to say off at the very beginning. I'm gonna
Trish Kritek (she/her): share our screen. So you can see who's here and what we're going to be talking about.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and I know there'll be some more people popping in as we go, so i'll begin by saying that we have no financial disclosures.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and we want to disclose that our goal is that we have some interaction today. So we will be asking you to engage in discussion. This is stuff that I think, is better when you participate, so we'll be doing that in a large group setting in a format called Slide out throughout, as well as in some breakout rooms.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and I always like to start every workshop by saying, Thank you. So a special thank you to all of you for making the time to come and build skills on how to navigate conflict, and I thank you to Sarah, who i'll thank again at the end.
Trish Kritek (she/her): And I think you, Elisa appears who is the person who make sure that all of these workshops actually happen, and you have all the information she will be recording These She'll be posting the link to the recording on our website, and you'll be able to see the slides there as well. So all of that is, thanks to Lisa, so a big thank you to Lisa.
Trish Kritek (she/her): The other thing that's important to do as we start is to thank the people on whose land we're standing, so want to acknowledge that this is the land. The land we occupied now is the traditional home of the toilet. The monkeys shoot the Duwamish and the Squamish tribal nations.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and without them we would not have access to this healing, learning, working, teaching environment.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So we humbly take this opportunity at all of our workshops to think the original caretakers of this land who are still here
Trish Kritek (she/her): with those thanks in mind. It's also really important for Sarah and I to know who's in the room with us, since we can't see you, and we're not physically with each other, which has its ups and downsides. You don't have to put your camera. That was not a pressure to put your camera that we'd love for you to do that in way.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and you can turn on a wave, and i'm also cool with you, keeping your camera off when you go into small groups. I'm gonna ask you to turn your cameras on. But for this part you don't have to keep your camera on. We love seeing you, though.
Trish Kritek (she/her): But we're gonna ask you a few questions via slide. So we have a sense of who's here? So i'm gonna actually ask you to grab your smartphone, smartphone, smart phone and we're gonna use a tool called Slide. Oh.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and up in the corner there's a. QR. Code that you can scan, and we're going to ask you just 2 questions to get a sense of kind of who's with us today.
Trish Kritek (she/her): so you can slam. You can scan the side of code and type into your phone. Where do you work?
Trish Kritek (she/her): And you can answer that. However, you want to answer it, and we'll be interested to see what people have to say.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Where do you work?
Trish Kritek (she/her): Harbor View Children's in the department of Radiation Oncology at the Hutch
Trish Kritek (she/her): and the Health Science is building it. You, Doug. More folks at children's
Trish Kritek (she/her): lots of folks are telling me on you. L l d yay exclamation point both of the being, and you dub
Trish Kritek (she/her): more Hutch More Harbor View.
Trish Kritek (she/her): the center for human development and disability. Still reading what people are love to hear from everybody, neighborhood, neighborhood, neighbor, care, Columbia City.
Trish Kritek (she/her): bioengineering and Slu South like Union great
Trish Kritek (she/her): lots and lots of folks from children, because you've got an amplified which is great
Trish Kritek (she/her): all right. I'm going to wait for that last person who's still typing to, or there's 2 still typing for us to learn where everybody from more folks from Rehab medicine. That's great
Trish Kritek (she/her): all right at Mount Like and Fred Hutch. So people working in multiple places. Great. Okay. Second question. What is it?
Trish Kritek (she/her): Oh, I see all that department of medicine pop in. What is it that you do?
Trish Kritek (she/her): And again you can be as creative as as you want to be? You can be as literal as you want to be. Tell us what it is you do, because it's helpful for us as we jump into these conversations to have this sense
Trish Kritek (she/her): division, Chief doctor, Clinical education, Academics Practicing Madison, Me. Too Clinical Provider, Dei, Manager, neuroscience, Research Home based Primary care, Nurse Practitioners. A professor, translational Research Dietitian Physician and educator.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Primary Care teaching primary care Peeds and clinical teaching
Trish Kritek (she/her): PA and the pediatric bone marrow. Transplant
Trish Kritek (she/her): another educator, breast surgeon and Section Chief Postdoc Fellow Great way to be ahead of the current physician, fellowship, director. anthesiologist, medical director of clinic, teaching peer support
Trish Kritek (she/her): radiation on colleges.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Lots of people who work in clinical spaces and clinical leadership lots of people who are educators and lots of folks who are in researchers. I see lots of different hats where you might be stepping into spaces where there is conflict, education, surgery, and clinic. So
Trish Kritek (she/her): this is super Hubble and I and I don't want to ignore the fact that that there's somebody who put it in the chat to which works to slide. It is not working for you. Throw it in the chat in the cardiac icu.
Trish Kritek (she/her): awesome lots and lots of different things that people are doing, and lots and lots of overlap. We have some physicians. We have some administrative folks. We have some
Trish Kritek (she/her): T. A. Nurse practitioners lots of different things that people do. Okay.
Trish Kritek (she/her): With that, I say, thank you. It's great to see the diversity that we have across the school, and i'm glad you're all here, and I know that you will learn from each other through the day, and i'm going to hand it off to Sarah to jump in here and kind of give a
Trish Kritek (she/her): a plan for for what we're going to do, and
Sara Kim: and then kind of take it from there. Sure, thank you trish. First of all, I would like to thank all of you. It's such a diverse group of colleagues gathered across all of our system, and I wanna say, thanks to Trish. Thank you for inviting me. I consider you to be a dynamic teacher and leader, and it's real an honor and a huge thanks to Lisa
Sara Kim: for all the logistical support. So we prepared this session largely around 3 segments. One is
Sara Kim: so. How do we prepare for having a dialogue around a conflict matter in a personal conflict, and then to impart some some specific skills. So
Sara Kim: between Trish and myself hopefully, you can walk away with some concrete skills that you might try applying in your life. and then we'll also do the application piece with the scenario. So next slide, please let's start with the definition of conflict.
Sara Kim: And next, if you can click, here's a definition I like to offer
Sara Kim: it's the perception, and I always say this: let's just underline the word perception. It's only the perception.
Sara Kim: I saw something. I heard something. I experienced something. It's a segment of that experience that gives rise to some kind of a story.
Sara Kim: and if we trace down the root of that story, it may
Sara Kim: find their touch, points, and differences, discrepancies, or incompatible with. So, if you have a disagreement in how you may solve problems.
Sara Kim: If norms and expectations are not set clearly
Sara Kim: in in your teams. or if norms apply differently to management versus frontline staff
Sara Kim: incompatible wishes. The reason why I love this definition is because it calls out the emotional component that a conflict will trigger.
Sara Kim: So how how I think about incompatible wishes, and is when promises are broken when words are not follow through.
Sara Kim: when my contributions are sidelined.
Sara Kim: when my voice is not invited. or when invited. it's dismissed.
Sara Kim: Then i'm going to wonder. Am I seen? Am I valued? Do I matter here?
Sara Kim: And so that's the scoop of a conflict definition. I like to start out with next line, please, so we think it's very important for each of us to know how we handle our conflict. Next slide so largely. We draw from Thomas Kilman, who created this conflict mode instrument.
Sara Kim: and it's it that there are 5 types which i'll go through in detail. 5 types along the line of the decrease to which we show up in this world in terms of how cooperative we are
Sara Kim: and how assertive we are.
Sara Kim: So they're competing, collaborating, compromising, avoiding, and accommodating. So next slide, please. So let's go through this individually, and I'm going to come back and share with you how I apply this in my own life, and maybe Trish may have something to add a little bit, since we have a bit of time.
Sara Kim: So if you're competing style. So you're it's not like you're ever competitive. It's more. It's about the style. The competing style
Sara Kim: would be experienced as assertive. Aggressive. Maybe You're out there to win.
Sara Kim: You love authority.
Sara Kim: and you will amply act out of that authority.
Sara Kim: though potentially without regards to other people's well-being
Sara Kim: as a result of your. you know, playing out your authority. So typically how we understand competing is my concern for myself
Sara Kim: tends to be higher than my concern towards you.
Sara Kim: And Here's my confession.
Sara Kim: I know i'm competing because the instrument says so. And over the years, especially in my administrative position, I have received feedback.
Sara Kim: so so that's why I would like to come back and share with you how I'm applying this now accommodating style can be regarded as the opposite.
Sara Kim: Their concern for themselves is placed lower than their concerns for others. so they seem super cooperative that my dream is to have a team with all accommodating people.
Sara Kim: What would that be a beautiful combination. I'm competing there, accommodating. They will do whatever I ask them to do
Sara Kim: so. So the problem is, while they may make a good team member.
Sara Kim: They may not be skilled or intentional in advocating for their needs and their wishes.
Sara Kim: So people who have accommodating conflict style. If you supervise them, then we have the responsibility to intentionally bring out their interest and their needs.
Sara Kim: Now the avoiding style. Interestingly, research after research will show healthcare professionals largely come out as avoiding.
Sara Kim: and that always fascinated me. You deal with life in this situations, and when it comes to conflict, the tendency is that you may sigh, step, postpone. ignore, or delegate
Sara Kim: the conflict matter to other people on your team. It's hard to know where you're placing your concern other than I. My guess is, you're placing your concern super low
Sara Kim: both on to yourself and on to others. That's why
Sara Kim: people with avoiding style will not invest in finding out what's going on with the conflict.
Sara Kim: which, as I will mention later, is a form of investing in relationship with the person we're in conflict with. I will say this I have seen leaders who openly will say, I don't, deal with conflict.
Sara Kim: and I have seen how unresolved
Sara Kim: in trench conflicts over the years created on unimaginable problems on the team.
Sara Kim: So if you're in a leadership position, there's a lot of opportunities to cultivate different kinds of conflict style. Collaborating is what I as would aspire to do and be so collaborating. People can be both assertive and cooperative.
Sara Kim: so they hold concerns towards themselves
Sara Kim: in equal measure as their concern towards you. That's why, when there's a difficult situation, they walk towards it
Sara Kim: because they know conversations need to happen.
Sara Kim: They know there is an underlying unspoken
Sara Kim: needs in other people that have to be invited out. It's just tremendous when you meet people who have a collaborating styles, and we're fortunate, because many, many, many colleagues in this style
Sara Kim: compromising, I tend to understand the style. There will be transactional. There are times when i'm compromising because, you know, i'm just not gonna go there. We gotta get through this deadline, all right. What are you gonna do? What am I gonna do?
Sara Kim: Did they? What are you gonna give up? What am I gonna give up that? It's it's just getting through the issue. And we just say, okay, i'm just gonna just let the issue just lie low for now.
Sara Kim: so there's no really a relational investment towards one another. So here's how I use it, because I know I tend to come up as competing.
Sara Kim: This means I am tempted to then say. Do as I say. How dare you over my dead body.
Sara Kim: or i'm out of here because I don't like it
Sara Kim: so
Sara Kim: because I know i'm tempted to show up in this way with staff members. I have to intentionally lean into the accommodating style
Sara Kim: in team meetings. I have to tell myself. Okay, you're not just going to opine and proclaim for the next 1 h during the team meeting You're gonna open up.
Sara Kim: Ask questions.
Sara Kim: How can I be helpful? You have no idea how long it has taken me to say that line to to pause and ask somebody.
How can I be helpful?
Sara Kim: Initially, it felt very unnatural.
Sara Kim: No, with my laterals or my superior. I try to learn from the collaborating style, so where we may have difficult conversations, maybe around budget, issue staffing issue
Sara Kim: personnel issues.
Sara Kim: So this is where, if i'm truly coming up as competing, I'm going to constantly butt heads with my lateral colleagues and with my boss. So so I learned to say
Sara Kim: these things. So I have to advocate for myself. This is what matters to me and my team. What about you?
What's the problem you're trying to solve here?
Sara Kim: So it's it's an attempt for me to draw from the wells of other styles that can help
Sara Kim: compliment my predominant style.
Sara Kim: So i'm just gonna pause here. And since we have about 4 min, see if Trish, you may have any comments or anything coming into chat.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Yeah, nothing's in the chat that I see so far. But we'll put up a slide. Oh, in a second to hear people's thoughts about their style as a little kind of warm, cold call, warm call for folks.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think, Sarah, I had some insights in this over time I in my administrative roles, I think I am pretty much in the collaborating space around conflict. I'm somebody who is okay waiting into that space and
Trish Kritek (she/her): do pretty well in trying to understand those perspectives, and I have this insight into myself that when i'm in the clinical space I sometimes become much more competing, and I find myself
Trish Kritek (she/her): being a little bit more
Trish Kritek (she/her): focused on my perspective being the right perspective, and probably push into this authority role a lot more than I do actually in my leadership role in the school.
Trish Kritek (she/her): which is a helpful insight to me when I go into those spaces, because then I can pause and be like, Wow! How would I see this
Trish Kritek (she/her): if I were, you know, dealing with something on the academic side? And why am I kind of broaching this this moment of disagreement in a different way. So
Trish Kritek (she/her): I I think I can see it situation on and like you. I think there are times when I am like compromising is the way to go in this situation, and and that's kind of about the amount of emotional energy i'm going to put into whatever that is. So I also can can use the tensions of the different spaces and the different ways. I approach problems
Sara Kim: to get insight into my own personal reactions to moments of of disagreement or conflict. Those are some more thoughts for me. Oh, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, it it takes a little bit of self monitoring and and slowing down, and sometimes asking people, how did you experience me in that space in that moment?
Sara Kim: It's just gathering information, so I can be better informed, and how to be skilled in tapping into these styles.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So I think that our next slide I was asking all of you to reflect for a second. And remember I was anonymous. If you can't use, slide, or you can use the chat.
Trish Kritek (she/her): What style do you think best describes how you commonly approach conflict, so share with us. Where do you? Where do you think you fall on those and remind I'll remind you that there
Trish Kritek (she/her): competing. accommodating. avoiding. collaborating. or compromising. And you can be just as nuanced as Sarah and I are just now
Trish Kritek (she/her): impeding a bunch of people that are competing some compromising.
Trish Kritek (she/her): some collaborating
Trish Kritek (she/her): administrator will equals compromise. Okay, I like that avoiding compromising. So both of those avoiding, avoiding.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Why didn't it come accommodating that's why i'm here. I appreciate that. So I think I mean, if nothing else, looking at the screen starts to show you, and one of the things that I think is most important about this is sometimes, I think we all assume that, however I
Trish Kritek (she/her): enter the world of conflict is how the other people are entering the world of conflict. And I think this visual just says that's not true. There's lots of different ways to look at this, so we see lots of different
Trish Kritek (she/her): different spaces. Maybe it's nice to see collaborating so
Trish Kritek (she/her): so prominent, but compet competing and compromising are nearly the same size, and and we see a bunch of different kind of combos depends on the context depends on the space like. We also said
Sara Kim: any other thoughts on this here before I move us forward.
Sara Kim: So how can we make what they do available to us? Invisible and shareable?
Sara Kim: Is this thought that comes up?
Trish Kritek (she/her): Okay, Well, we're going to let you start talking to each other a little bit. We're gonna now. I'm going to share a case with you and i'm just going to read through it, so you can kind of take it in. I i'm hoping it resonates, even with a little bit of twink in the language or the scenario to something in your life.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So here's our first case. You recently submitted a paper to a journal. You're the first author.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and pat your colleague was your co-author. The journal sent you a substantial comments from the reviewers. You email Pat to say, how should we chat? How should we tackle this revision together?
Trish Kritek (she/her): You don't hear back because of the tight timeline, you went ahead and revise the paper, including doing additional data analyses that were requested in the reviews.
Trish Kritek (she/her): You send the revised paper back to pat before submitting to the journal.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and Pat replies, Looks good thanks. The lack of engagement with revisions is not sitting well with you. You asked to be with Pat
Trish Kritek (she/her): that says, handling the re is your responsibility
Trish Kritek (she/her): as the first author. So
Trish Kritek (she/her): you're gonna prepare to have a conversation with Pat, and like, I said, you can tweak it slightly in your head to be relevant to the world in which you work. But hopefully, you can appreciate the the the tensions
Trish Kritek (she/her): in the situation. And if you're somebody who likes to be able to refer back to the case. even though i'm not sure the details of it really matter for your conversation. Take a picture of the screen right now. So you have a picture of of the case.
Trish Kritek (she/her): What we're gonna do is we're gonna put you into groups of 5 or 6 people, and you won't know of each other necessarily, because you just saw that there's people from all across our system who are part of these groups.
Trish Kritek (she/her): We'll ask you to take a minute to introduce yourself to each other. You don't have to do a lot, but it's nice just to know who's in the room.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and we're gonna use a Google Doc, at least, is gonna put into the into the chat that allows Sarah and I to kind of see what you're thinking about. But right in some of the thoughts that are coming up, so have somebody who's willing to use the Google Doc and have somebody who's willing to be a reporter. And I'm going to encourage you just to identify those at the beginning.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and and then walk through these 3 questions. So here are the 3 questions. What's your reaction? How do you feel? And Sara already talked a little bit about emotion. So what's your emotion about going to this conversation?
Trish Kritek (she/her): How do you begin to approach this conflict with your colleague Pat. and then
Trish Kritek (she/her): can you? Can you think about what your media responses, and then how you might think about it longer term.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So what's your reaction? How do you begin to approach this conflict.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and then that distinction between your immediate response and a longer term response. The Google Doc is in the chat right now. You can click on it. And hopefully, at least one person in your group will have access to it.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and then we're going to give you about 15 min to talk with each other, and we know you don't necessarily know each other. That's okay. Talk through and learn from each other about this, and then we'll come back together and discuss as a group. all right. So
Trish Kritek (she/her): Sarah and I were watching as you talked to each other. And so we're going to highlight some of the themes that we saw emerging, and we'll invite your voices to the conversation as well. And I would say
Trish Kritek (she/her): in the first question, where it was a question about like, what's your reaction.
Trish Kritek (she/her): What, perhaps was most interesting to us, and I'm. Curious in your groups if this came out, was that there was a broad range of reactions ranging from like, what's the problem? This is a normal way for things to work to being really annoyed and frustrated to
Trish Kritek (she/her): wondering what's going on with Pat and and a lot of different things in between. So I think the first thing that was interesting and observation is.
Trish Kritek (she/her): this situation might
Trish Kritek (she/her): be incredibly frustrating for some people and not feel frustrating at all to others. Did that come out in your groups? In your conversations
Trish Kritek (she/her): I see some not. Okay. I think the point there is. People are going to see the situation very differently, and you kind of lived it out in in that conversation, and hopefully heard that
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think the part where we want to, maybe, and and list some of your voices is in the next part. I think we saw a bunch of different things where people were kind of curious. Curious about
Trish Kritek (she/her): what the expectations were that were set up front.
Trish Kritek (she/her): What? What Pat's perspective is on this? What's going on with Pat is pad. Okay.
Trish Kritek (she/her): what could they have brought to the situation?
Trish Kritek (she/her): And we really saw a lot of curiosity in the second second part, and i'll. I'll just pause here. If there were other things that people were curious about, or were wondering about as they were preparing for that conversation.
Trish Kritek (she/her): any things that came up that I didn't. Highlight is kind of
Trish Kritek (she/her): the perspective taking that might have happened in that next part.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I'll be quiet.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and you can just feel free to. You can use the chat, but you can also just unmute for a small enough group. But we will welcome your voice.
Alex Molnar (she/her): One of the members of our group, I thought it brought up a really interesting thought is terms of perspective taking. How would this be different if Pat is? Maybe your pi, and you're a grad student, or
Alex Molnar (she/her): maybe Pat is a grad student, and you're the pi.
Alex Molnar (she/her): and just thinking about how that would be navigated in that way. I thought that was a
Trish Kritek (she/her): Thank you. I appreciate you saying that, Alex. And I think it did come up in some comments about like, what is our relationship? Who is Pat with respect to me, and how this would feel different if
Trish Kritek (she/her): they were a mentor when they have some degree of obligation, and it's harder to have that conflict. Yeah, Joseph.
Joseph T Flynn: Well.
Joseph T Flynn: one of the things that has to be stated is that you created this conflict
Joseph T Flynn: because you went ahead and made the revisions, and did the work without talking to your colleague. And so now you're in a
Joseph T Flynn: situation of your own creation. And so part of the problem is with you.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So I appreciate you saying that. And that came through like, what did I bring to this? And there was a lot of comments about setting expectations for the future, and how, maybe we missed the boat on setting expectations at the start. So that pause to say, like, Where did I? Where am I bringing something to this conflict, I think, is a really helpful perspective to take.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and whether or not that you're the cause of it or not, you're definitely a partner, and whatever is going on right now, and and it wasn't clear to both parties how this was going to move forward. So thank you for saying that
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think embedded in that also was another theme that Sarah and I saw, which was
Trish Kritek (she/her): many people saying email isn't the way to sort this out that actually we need to talk to each other. So give me an emoji of your choice. If somewhere in your conversation someone said, we're not going to resolve this by email, or maybe we should have tried sooner to talk to each other as opposed to to email. So I see some thumbs up.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Yeah.
Trish Kritek (she/her): we saw that. Thank you for the creative choices of emojis. If you're not just giving thumbs up. I appreciate the the creativity. Yeah. So so I think lots of
Trish Kritek (she/her): lots of people would support.
Trish Kritek (she/her): including, I think, both Sarah and me, that this is not a conflict that we're going to sort out by email. And that email doesn't have tone. It takes the tone of the reader, even though you might have a tone. And what you think you're writing. That's your tone in your head, and not what the reader is going to necessarily here. So I think embedded in. What Joseph said also was.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Maybe that a conversation is needed sooner in this
Trish Kritek (she/her): other observations about kind of approaching this discussion, because I think we all agree that there needs to be a discussion any other things that came up in your group that you want to share forward.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Okay. like, we said, I think for the third one about short term and long term
Trish Kritek (she/her): lot of the short term was, we need to talk, and I think, making sure that we listen as part of that conversation was came through, and then this whole theme that I've already alluded to, setting more expectations that the one of the ways to avoid this is to have conversation upfront about how things are going to work
Trish Kritek (she/her): and establishing that at Baseline is important. I will say, even with best intention. Sometimes we don't do that so still trying to figure out how you're gonna now enter. This space will be an important thing, but definitely for a longer term.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Relationships like this. Having that conversation in front of about how you're going to work together can help prevent some of these conflicts.
Sara Kim: There are other themes or things you wanted to highlight from what you read, and
Sara Kim: and then that's like. I just love this reflection pieces, and i'll try. My, did it back to this like need to sit with the situation.
Sara Kim: Then have a conversation. Bravo! To you, or to that group Beautiful! Another one is. I really appreciate the specific ideas you have about how to have the conversation.
Sara Kim: You know. State how you feel how this is, how I experience the situation. Check in with a pat, I mean, I think, trish my senses. We're sitting before very experience intentional practitioners.
Sara Kim: right that they're doing this, and many of you are collaborating style, and they're collaborating style handshaking
Sara Kim: with your thoughtful this ha! And how you have the conversation. It's just very remarkable and admirable to me.
Trish Kritek (she/her): all right.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I'm gonna kind of keep moving us forward as we continue, but we welcome your thoughts and your comments, and you can use the chat as we go, or any questions. And and i'm gonna say there's no one right way. We just said, there's many different ways to enter into these conversations where there's some conflict, so your wisdom.
Trish Kritek (she/her): it's the wisdom of the group, so we welcome that as well as we move forward.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think I want to kind of
Trish Kritek (she/her): resonate on a bunch of things that people shared and talk about kind of 4 steps about thinking about moving into a conversation where you're in conflict with somebody, and you're going to try to navigate those waters so.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and and kind of thinking this through together, Sarah and I thought through kind of 4 steps.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and the first step is to to lead, with some inquiry, some curiosity, and also try to find where things are common.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think I know that when I get some of those emails that make my jaw clench or my blood pressure go up. My first thing is like
Trish Kritek (she/her): frustration with that person, and yet usually there is something that we have as a shared purpose or a common goal, or I can see lots of good things about that person if I can get myself out of the moment of being really frustrated. And whether that's reminding myself that we're all trying to do the right thing for this patient or that, we started off working on this paper together because we liked working with each other, or that we're part of a team that's effective. A lot of the time. And this is a point where there's tension.
Trish Kritek (she/her): or or that they're a strong personality, and i'm a strong personality, and that's a good thing.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and that I sometimes lead to us, being a conflict. I, pausing long enough to kind of remind myself of those things, is a useful strategy for me, particularly when I feel myself going into the competing mode in terms of resolving conflict.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Now that doesn't mean that I don't still have an opinion or a perspective, because I do have an opinion in a perspective. But that that pause to remind myself of where we have some things in common is a helpful check for me in in starting to think this through
Trish Kritek (she/her): The second step is something that I think I we saw in a lot of the comments, and that is to kind of think through the issue again on my own a little bit, and there's 2 2 aspects to that that I would encourage people to think about.
Trish Kritek (she/her): The first one is to think about the behaviors that you were troubled by that were concerning to you and whatever was going on. And
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think that focus on behaviors and not on
Trish Kritek (she/her): kind of who the person is, is a as a trait that I use in thinking about feedback with learners on a regular basis. When i'm giving feedback to learners. I think about their modifiable behaviors that I think they could do in the future differently. I bring that same lens to the situation. What's the behavior that's causing me frustration or leading to the conflict in my perspective.
Trish Kritek (she/her): And then i'm going to connect back to something Sarah said before.
Trish Kritek (she/her): is to talk about how i'm experiencing that. not interpreting what their intent was.
Trish Kritek (she/her): but how it's feeling how it's making me feel now
Trish Kritek (she/her): there are some conversations where I'm really comfortable sharing how it's making me feel it's making me feel dismissed.
Trish Kritek (she/her): It's making this. This behavior made me feel dismissed.
Trish Kritek (she/her): This behavior made me feel
Trish Kritek (she/her): taken advantage of, or whatever it is, you know, in this I'm kind of alluding back to when you didn't contribute at all to the edit. The way it made me feel was
Trish Kritek (she/her): that you are taking advantage of me doing the labor for this paper, or whatever those those emotions are so trying to be, to do that a little bit dispassionately, but also acknowledge the emotion that you're bringing to the situation that you that it elicits in you
Trish Kritek (she/her): without. And this is maybe the most important thing
Trish Kritek (she/her): interpreting. So
Trish Kritek (she/her): we all interpret somebody's intent.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So when something happens, we say they, this is why they did that, and I think we're trying to stick with kind of just what happened and what how it made us feel as opposed to trying to interpret their intent like you were trying to make me do. All your intention was to make me do all the work on this paper, or your intention was just to get this publication in
Trish Kritek (she/her): and try to pause myself when I, when I start to interpret that intent to say, I don't know I actually don't know the intent.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I I bet there's actually probably alternate explanations. Some of you did that beautifully. And talking about this case, you said maybe something else is going on with Pat.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Maybe Pat has tons of stuff going on in their life right now, and they just can't attend to this paper right now.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Maybe something's going on with Pat, where I ruffled their feathers, and I didn't even know I ruffled their feathers. or maybe Pat just has too many things on their plate right now to deal with this just in their regular work. I I don't know.
Trish Kritek (she/her): but I have a story.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Sarah said this before I've created a story in my head. We all do it.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and I think it's a pause to say, is there an alternative story? There are there are 3 alternative stories. Are there 6 alternative stories? And If this doesn't resonate with you, I would ask you to pause and think about. If this has ever happened in your life outside of work.
Trish Kritek (she/her): have you ever with a significant other, or a good friend had something where you're like.
Trish Kritek (she/her): They're doing this because X, y, and Z. This happens with my significant other at home sometimes, where i'm like clearly your not making the bed, because
Trish Kritek (she/her): you think it's my job to make the bed, and in reality he might be saying, I don't make the but because you're so ocd about how how you make the bet that you're going to remake it anyway, and then we need to have a conversation about that.
Trish Kritek (she/her): but I use it as a like a low key example, because
Trish Kritek (she/her): there's almost always another story there, and some curiosity about how you're interpreting it, and how there might be an alternative. Interpretation
Trish Kritek (she/her): is important. And this is where this idea of assuming positive intent that really that probably
Trish Kritek (she/her): This is what I come back to when i'm in the clinical setting, and I have conflict at the end of the day I can say there's no way that somebody is doing something because they want to harm a patient. Everyone I work with wants to make a patient better.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I need to come back to that place, as I think about. Why, I might be having the conflict
Trish Kritek (she/her): and the last step. And this is before we get any into any of the dialogue because Sarah is going to handle the dialogue after the break
Trish Kritek (she/her): is that I do kind of come back to this perspective taking, and I think it's really important. Joseph actually alluded to this already to ask myself if I can be honest with myself? What have, what have I brought to the situation? What could I have contributed? What could be making it harder for them that I don't realize that i'm bringing to this
Trish Kritek (she/her): What's it like to be in their shoes.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I want they be seeing this, and I think when Alex raised the issue of like, what's the hierarchy in this situation? That's a really important one to ask when somebody is either senior to you or Junior chair. How how would this look different if it they, you know.
Trish Kritek (she/her): if I was the boss instead of they are the boss, or, more importantly, if they were the boss and I wasn't the boss.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and then, like, what are the things that could be contributing to this being a stressful time I feel like For the last 3 years everyone has had 17 reasons to be stressed that have nothing to do with whatever the conflict is that they may or may not be bringing. I know I brought that to many situations
Trish Kritek (she/her): that you know, worrying about my family, or worrying about all the people that I care for and take care of
Trish Kritek (she/her): was really
Trish Kritek (she/her): added stress to whatever other stuff was going on. And that's that's true for all of us. And and pausing to remember that and I, all of these things we saw embedded in the in the conversations at least what made it to the Google document, and I hope that more of it was in your conversations.
Trish Kritek (she/her): These are really steps that that we think about
Trish Kritek (she/her): in terms of kind of preparing to have that conversation.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and and then kind of you try to to move forward from there.
Trish Kritek (she/her): where you can kind of talk, start that conversation, and i'm gonna let Sarah talk mostly about that conversation.
Trish Kritek (she/her): But one thing that you might think about as you enter those conversations is to thinking about what you need from that person. What are the things that you that you need from that person as you move forward.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and and being able to say what you need for the future, because a lot of this is about perspective taking. But you also have to be honest about what it is that you need in this, in this conversation, or this
Trish Kritek (she/her): process of moving forward together.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and and those steps
Trish Kritek (she/her): put together.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and get you prepared for entering into that that that discussion
Trish Kritek (she/her): they don't have to be in sequence. They don't that's not like a step by step recipe
Trish Kritek (she/her): they're just a bunch of different things that might help as you think about how you're gonna enter into a dialogue with somebody where you're having conflict. And again.
Trish Kritek (she/her): everyone's going to bring their own conflict style in different situations at different times.
Trish Kritek (she/her): But the ability to have inquiry, take perspective and also state kind of your perspective. Those are all important anytime that we're entering into a a dialogue around conflict.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I'm going to pause there for Sara to add to what I had to say or correct anything that I might have said that wasn't quite right.
Sara Kim: No trish thanks for that overview. I think you're reinforcing some of the points that I will go into, so maybe we can open up and see if the community has any. Input
Trish Kritek (she/her): We welcome you questioning this or saying that doesn't, I don't think I could do that.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Cynthia.
Cynthia M. Dougherty: Way to be brave. Yeah. Well, one thing that I've
Cynthia M. Dougherty: tried to do is promise myself if I feel really irritated about something to wait, at least today, and not fire back on email. I might write an email, but I make a promise never to send it and wait. And so that has really saved me a lot. My my
Cynthia M. Dougherty: first reaction is the fire back and say, you know, blah blah blah blah blah! You know that doesn't help. But the other thing I've tried to teach myself is
Cynthia M. Dougherty: really on a scale of one to 10. How irritated am I? Am am I with this, and if it's not going to be a big deal. I'm not going to do anything at all about it. I'm not going to really have to have coffee and talk this whole thing out, and buy hot tea and all that, unless it really really deeply matters to me.
Cynthia M. Dougherty: And because I don't feel like I need to stir up stuff, you know. So I
Cynthia M. Dougherty: check my immediate response. And then really just decide.
Cynthia M. Dougherty: You know how, madam, I or how how irritated am I, and maybe I just decide like in this situation, not to do anything at all.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Yeah, I appreciate a lot of like a couple of things i'll pull out of that. One is, why is sage advice not to send an email at the moment you get an email that is
Trish Kritek (she/her): frustrating to. I I think
Trish Kritek (she/her): my life lessons on that one is. Sometimes it's valuable to write the email, but I do it with absolutely nothing in the 2 line, so that I don't accidentally send it at some point in time, and for sure, if I write it, I save it for a day to read it later. I also have some trusted people that I see that I reach out to to check me when I think i'm really.
Trish Kritek (she/her): you know, maybe at risk of saying something I would regret later. And then generally, if I have to write that email, usually the right response is to say, let's talk.
Trish Kritek (she/her): because if you have to send an email that has all that stuff in it. Probably it's better to talk. And then the second thing that I want to pull out of what you said was, and sometimes that you know that whole approach is compromising.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Sometimes the energy is not worth it. And you are going to say this is how we're going to move forward in this situation. Fine! I'm not going to make a big deal about it. It feels okay. And I I think that that's true.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think you got it. We all have a a certain amount of energy and bandwidth, and so I appreciate that very much. I saw Molly, add in the chat.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I take a day to let summer. But then my avoidance style kicks, and I just added to my huge pot of unaddressed frustrations. Okay, so thank you for that honesty. That's great. And I I think
Trish Kritek (she/her): i'm still gonna support the let it similar for a day. But the question is, how can you kind of move into the space of then reaching out to maybe have a discussion, if it's one that's going to build into that
Trish Kritek (she/her): a of frustrations, and particularly with the same person over and over again Something so thank you.
Sara Kim: Cynthia. So when you say, how mad am I about this? I love that because you're giving yourself a task.
Sara Kim: and that's what I try to do these days. I give my brain a task because it's loves to be engaged.
That's the time away from doing something regrettable.
Sara Kim: So I want to just hold that.
Sara Kim: and you may do
Sara Kim: periodic check. Well, hi my after dinner. I'm like, how mad am I
Sara Kim: tomorrow morning, and then your action may change. And, Molly, maybe for you. Maybe you make a promise.
Sara Kim: If my madness scale stays at 7, for you know, 24 h. This is these are some of the options I might pursue. Give yourself a task.
Sara Kim: that's all I want to add, so I wanna I want to thank could depend on If you'll have an ongoing working release. Yes, if it builds up
Sara Kim: well, yes, I mean we can have a whole conversation about that. So thank you for that.
Sara Kim: The considering the long term relationship for taking certain actions or taking no actions
Trish Kritek (she/her): all right. I realized also I don't think I was sharing my slides that whole time. So it's going to tension it. But then, you know it's always always
Trish Kritek (she/her): Well.
Trish Kritek (she/her): i'm just gonna do this for the sake of saying if you want to later see all the things I said.
Trish Kritek (she/her): we'll share these slides that that actually walk through exactly what I was talking about a second ago. Next time Sarah feel free to remind me that i'm not sharing my slides, but with that in mind. Now you just think I just can wax philosophical on and on You'll You'll have these slides for reference, for later.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think we'll take a 5 min stretch break, so we'll it is now 201. We'll come back at 206, so
Trish Kritek (she/her): stretch, grab some water, run to the bathroom if you need to, really
Trish Kritek (she/her): badly, and then we'll come back to talk about that dialogue and the language that we use. Alright.
Sara Kim: All right, so
Sara Kim: unlike trish. I do need my side. She was so verbally fluid, and I think we all followed the the flow and the key points, and
Sara Kim: and my job is to sort of bring what trish was teaching us down to some concrete dialogue. Skill level. So next slide, please, and let's begin with our intention.
Sara Kim: This is in complex space what I try to do
Sara Kim: that even if I violently disagree with somebody, I try to anchor my motion and 2 levels at 2 levels, learning and relationship. So
Sara Kim: even if I don't like the situation, this might be the same situation happening over and over again. I ask myself, what could I possibly learn something new
Sara Kim: about myself, about the other person and about the issue?
Sara Kim: So even if the conversation doesn't go well, or even maybe it escalates.
Sara Kim: I'm gonna learn something about new about myself. Why, I didn't know that issue. Push my button.
Sara Kim: I didn't know the other person really cared about that matter.
Sara Kim: But the key is, I can't pursue
Sara Kim: the desire to learn at the expense of preserving the relationship with another person. So that's the hard part. If I just want to learn something, then i'm gonna pose tough questions.
Sara Kim: even if it may create some disrespect on the other person, because relationship is secondary to me. On the other hand, if I don't want to upset the other person.
Sara Kim: I don't want to deliver bad news, so I lean on to the relationship piece. and I don't push the boundary of the conversation. Then i'm going to compromise learning. So this is why conflict? Dialogue is challenging, but also appealing to me because i'm in continuous sort of improvement mode. How do I balance this? Where could I have done better?
Sara Kim: But here's a bigger challenge. this intention to learn an intention to preserve relationship is forever against the headwinds of other forces
Sara Kim: largely from my upbringing or childhood. So you know. What if what if I grew up in a family where punishment was a family language
Sara Kim: that I wasn't given second chances.
Sara Kim: boy, what would that look like in terms of trying to anchor this intention in the primary way of being in this world. What if my personality is that I must be right all the time, that there is no flexibility and relaxation at the edge
Sara Kim: of my cherished belief in values.
Sara Kim: or what if I cannot tolerate any blemish on my self image?
Sara Kim: You know these are the things when present. They just invite me to engage in lifelong inquiry into Well, where did I come from? And how am I going to work through these, and then that's the forces against which I anchor my intention. So next slide, please.
Sara Kim: and maybe trish if you can just click through. I would appreciate it. So I just want to show how our intentions when we set that clearly, like what you said and on Google, Doc, i'm going to sort of reflect on how to have the conversation. That intention is going to. Then shape the actions. Your actions are going to make your words visible.
Sara Kim: and then they'll have it. There will be an impact. So let me give 3 examples
Sara Kim: next slide. So
Sara Kim: what if
Sara Kim: my style is competitive, competing, and I'm. In a position of power, and I have very little self awareness, and I received very little feedback along the way. What if I show up when an employee fails to deliver the assignment that my intention is to punish.
Sara Kim: Then I may put that staff member on notice in public.
Sara Kim: I may say, Miss, your deadline is not okay. I expect you to fix the problem.
Sara Kim: Now I start to utter these harsh and hot words. Well, that employee probably will not stay around a long time. But here's a real tragedy, Unexamined.
Sara Kim: careless, harmful intention can create this impact that I justify.
Sara Kim: You know some some mild humiliation. I think it works, inciting some fear with it. You know Stokes fire under their belly. They they they get productive by justified. Then I am set out to then create a toxic environment.
Sara Kim: But next, please. But if my intention is to gather information that I tell myself, i'm not going to make decisions. All i'm going to do is try to understand the problem.
Sara Kim: Then my action that, hopefully, you observe, is, i'm going to pose questions. What's been tried so far?
Sara Kim: How did you arrive at this conclusion. Who else should we consult? So the impact is, i'm trying to create a a culture partnership. I I want everybody to feel, boy, my voice matters. I have a stake in this
Sara Kim: and the next click, please. So that is for recent example. I found out that after my units send out a message throughout the medical school that there is an error
Sara Kim: now.
Sara Kim: Yes, I can show up to and punish, but because i'm doing a lot of work. Now I can at least move my intention into i'm gonna show
Sara Kim: and and show the correct way and have a conversation.
Sara Kim: I was gonna take over the email and resend it myself to the entire community with an apology.
Sara Kim: But I called the team meeting and communicated what the expectation was and what the gap was. I have to be very explicit about it.
Sara Kim: and that's when I try to lean into the learning piece, but also preserve the relationship. I said I was surprised to see this mistake.
Sara Kim: but also i'm trying to move them away from doing excessive
Sara Kim: analysis of what went wrong. Tours
Sara Kim: what we can do better. That's my job.
Sara Kim: So with the showing intention, I shift them from the past to the future, and I have to t this little in no to self. Oh, in the future we must build in some measures to a voice similar situations. Trish, do you have any comment about this intention piece?
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think it's interesting because I was talking about intention and impact kind of the other way about like
Trish Kritek (she/her): we. We, we interpret the intention of other folks based on on what what happens to us. And here I think you're saying, have some clarity in your own personal intention, and and actually ask yourself what is the intention of of my behavior, kind of asking the same question about yourself. That kind of turned around. Interesting.
Sara Kim: Yeah, I bet collaborating individuals have this hardwired people like me, and I know there are kind of spirits out there competing. This is an intentional practice we can engage in. Set your intention. It's like a flashlight, and then
Sara Kim: make sure your actions and your words fall on the path of what is being illuminated
and and just. Monitor. Monitor, how your words are received by others.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think the one that I think is interesting, particularly here is gather information. I think sometimes we can explain to ourselves, or say to ourselves that our intention is to gather information. But if you already know the answers
and you're asking them mostly to make a point, then you're probably your intentions, not really to gather information. And so I think that's a good check in those moments as well, because I certainly have done those things where i'm like.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Well, I know that that X Y. And Z. And then I ask a question, but it's somewhat disingenuous, so I I think that question about gather information leading with true curiosity Things that you're really want to understand is, yeah, yeah. So you know, I used to say clearly, this is what we have to do.
Sara Kim: What do you all think? You know? I you, you know I've already opined, especially my position of leadership. And so it's about creating the space it's creating space to gather in different voices.
Okay, let's move on.
Sara Kim: I'm going to go through 3 discrete concrete skills.
Sara Kim: My sense is your You already have rich repertoire of what you already do. So this might be just an additional way to continue. Expand what you're already doing. Well, so we're gonna look at asking questions, how to reflect emotions and how to reframe
Sara Kim: tough remarks. So
Sara Kim: I learned this through the King County dispute resolution, center experts who do community mediations and
Sara Kim: what is promoted is when you ask questions it's to avoid leading with Why? So? If we are sitting down with Pat, we could say, pat, Why didn't you respond to my email?
Sara Kim: So when you try to instead, because the the reason is, it tends to put people in a defensive mode.
Sara Kim: then we're not really keeping that person fully engaged at the table. So try asking your questions with what and how. what and how, and i'm going to give you some examples. So here are some examples you can see. So let's go to the next slide.
Sara Kim: And yes, thank you. So why on north? Would you think that no one agrees with you
Sara Kim: is one way to say it. So what I do is I love writing out these sentences, and you know they come very easy. Why, questions and I try to persevere and and labor through. How else might I ask this? I'm curious
Sara Kim: what specifically informed your opinion?
Sara Kim: I you know. I'm trying to keep the person at the dialogue space. I'm trying to get it. My potential Blind Spot
Sara Kim: and i'm trying to sort of relax in front of this person. Let's look at another one.
Sara Kim: Why did you give that medication? Dose? It's wrong, you know.
Sara Kim: Apparently this is said. And so the next one
Sara Kim: i'm concerned about the dose. What leads you to believe it's safe for this patient trish. What do you think of that? Answer.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think I think the interesting thing is, you're putting kind of a statement with a question. And i'm curious about whether or not we could reframe it as just a question.
Sara Kim: Yeah, yeah, we could have. Yeah. Yeah, when I did this exercise I couldn't get the question without that leading in phrase, but we could drop it. I needed that on ramp.
Sara Kim: You're right. Okay, I think I have one more.
Sara Kim: Why are you making a solo decision? This feels like an abuse of power?
Sara Kim: Oh, that's
Sara Kim: hot sentence. How do you plan to include others voices? I know you care about making decisions collaboratively. What i'm trying to do here is when I ask these questions. I'm also trying to hearken in the other person the value that I believe that they cherish.
Sara Kim: It just happens in this moment they're making this solo decision.
Sara Kim: and i'm trying to evoke in them. Remember, remember your collaborative decision maker, so i'm trying to slide that in. As I asked the question, any any comments Trish
Trish Kritek (she/her): again. I think the only thing I I think this is a good, a good thing to when you have that. Why question on your on the tip of your tongue to pause and think about how you might ask it as a what or how, and I I think again it has to come back to true curiosity. So
Trish Kritek (she/her): you know.
Trish Kritek (she/her): for example, why did you give that medication dose? I I think the question I might have asked is like what was going on when you went to give the the medication, because probably there's something else going on that led them to give a different dose or something distracted them. I don't know. I just be curious about what was going on. Yes, and so I think it's that exercise of trying to think of? What are those other stories? What else could be going on that lead you to this?
Sara Kim: This? These are I love that, and that's the point you made in in your talk as well. So it's it's. It's to elicit the other person's stories
Sara Kim: and and give me the chance to sort of open up and enlarge my own understanding about the issue. Thank you, Trish.
Sara Kim: Nothing is in chat. Should we move on
Sara Kim: You're gonna ask them to give it a shot Sarah. Right so why did you miss the deadline?
Sara Kim: How would you ask this question differently?
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think there's lots of different ways You could do this. Let's see all the different ways. People think about this one.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and just to say it out loud, and some some of these will come really quickly, and some take a little time.
Sara Kim: Oh, what prevented you from making the day like? What are the barriers?
Sara Kim: Help me understand that that's another on ramp. What was going on with you last week.
Sara Kim: curious to learn what was going on. what has been going on with you recently.
Sara Kim: What was going on in your life when this I I all of these are beautiful ways to invite the stories.
Sara Kim: What has been your focus? Such that the deadline was missed. That's interesting. I like that. You're giving the benefit of the doubt that the person was focused on something else.
Sara Kim: Yeah, I notice you missed the recent deadline. Is there something I can help. That's also beautiful. In what way could I have been helpful to meet the deadline? Or I think there are other ways to ask that question. But what you asked is fine.
Sara Kim: I'm curious to hear what happened. So you know it's interesting, right? Half of these comments have those kind of leading phrases.
Sara Kim: Yeah, I think you missed a deadline. Please correct me if I'm I I love the tentativeness. Could I have been wrong?
Sara Kim: And you know you're really not wrong. But, gosh! Can I be tentative?
Trish Kritek (she/her): And I think if you're a competitive person taking that little bit more tentative approach, if you're more of an avoided person. Maybe this part where people
Trish Kritek (she/her): actually acknowledged what they observed. I noticed it was the recent deadline doesn't say anything about what was going on with that person. It just this happened. Yes, yes, and then an opening for for understanding. Thank you, everybody. And I want to make a comment about what Chris said about you. Know Your questions have to be authentic
Sara Kim: for people like me for whom this is a learned behavior.
Sara Kim: I need my on-ramp statements so, like many of you. I'm curious. Tell me more, I wonder those are my on-ramp statements. Somehow. They're kind of a signal to my brain. Oh, Sarah Kim.
Sara Kim: you're about to ask a question, beginning with what and how you're going to listen to the story that's being elicited.
I think, like extraordinary communicators skill. People can go straight to the question. I need that on, RAM. My, it's like that. Th. The training will on my bike. Hopefully. I will lose them down the road.
Sara Kim: Thank you, everyone. Let's continue to reflect.
Sara Kim: When we reflect it's we're really mirroring emotions. And could you click once, and when we mirror emotions, it's actually a bidirectional mirror. I signal to others
Sara Kim: that I I I get how you feel. but I also single to others how i'm feeling so. If you are an accommodating style. You may focus on how other people feel.
Sara Kim: If you're competing like me, you may only focus on how i'm feeling. It's really about 2 ways. So if you can click once, here are some examples.
Sara Kim: It's a it's a neutral resonance. Instead of saying you seem upset. It's like that sounds frustrating.
Sara Kim: I hear how upset You are
Sara Kim: sorry this is so tough on you. It's been a hard day. It's clear you're passionate about this when I when I can't empathize, because maybe i'm mad. But I know I have to signal, and I can't do it in an authentic way, for a variety of reasons and failing on my part, I say, I hear your passion.
Sara Kim: Alex said. These are phrases I use with my toddler back to that place. That's right. That's right. Sounds like this is generationally applicable. Quick ones signal others. And then.
Sara Kim: when I signal how i'm feeling. I say, you can imagine how surprised, how upset I was how disappointing I was
Sara Kim: when you interrupt it, or I can see when I was interrupted by you when speaking in in the committee meeting, and I couldn't finish my sentence. I was getting frustrated. In fact, I noticed how angry I was becoming.
Sara Kim: I have never had anyone aboard and evacuate the dialogue space when I put my motion in this way.
Sara Kim: however, people have shut down the dialogue space when I show up like this. If you don't want me on this committee. Just tell me.
Sara Kim: tell me. why are you humiliating me by cutting me off?
Sara Kim: So? I have to learn how to be a panic to my emotion, because when, if I stuff it, it's gonna come out somewhere.
Sara Kim: it's gonna smear the discussion and the dialogue, no matter how well intentioned, I am. So let's go to the next slide.
Sara Kim: How would you reflect this? No one appreciates me.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So is that my personal feeling? No one appreciates me, or someone has said that to you
Sara Kim: it's no one. It's, thank you. So it's when somebody says to you, No one around here appreciates me. How would you reflect back to that person.
Sara Kim: And while we're it's tree time, maybe going over about 2 min. You're gonna go over a little bit. It's not a problem. Don't worry. Okay.
Sara Kim: that must be a terrible feeling for you to have. Well, that must feel very isolating. I love that Sorry you feel that way. Can you tell me a bit more.
Sara Kim: That's all like a hard way to feel. Yeah. tell me more.
Sara Kim: I know it's hard when contributions Aren't being recognized.
Sara Kim: Oh, what types of feedback would be most useful. Well, that's an interesting one. Maybe you can say that because you have a deep relationship with this individual
Sara Kim: that's a difficult place to be telling me more. Tell me I love how people are using. Tell me more.
Sara Kim: Another one that works well is. If I were you I would feel the same way. E has worked for me at least to be empathetic. You're valued. I'm sorry we Haven't conveyed this to you. How can we communicate. Yeah. So you know, we all have different ways. Some people have these building blocks
Sara Kim: of different phrases. Some people go with one for you. You just have to, I think. Try and
Sara Kim: and and watch, and observe, and be a witness to how your words are received by others.
Sara Kim: Anything that you see, Trish.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think sometimes we worry about just saying
Trish Kritek (she/her): I hear you like I I think you can acknowledge that that, and then you can, and you can reflect it, and I I think that was
Trish Kritek (she/her): highlighted here. A fair amount also, really, like all the people focusing on. Tell me more.
Sara Kim: Yeah. And then chat. Molly says, you know Yes, in professional settings, that we don't give permissions to express our emotions. And so you know what I do like, You know, as as I was sitting with the comment. I found myself getting angry. Now, when I say these things, I keep my voice super steadfast.
Sara Kim: because I need the person to hear me not be kind of overwhelmed by my explicit, demonstrative emotions. So there's a little bit of practice that I have to do
Sara Kim: so. But I I agree it's hard, but I think it is necessary in order to be an authentic communicator. So let's cover the last. Let me just say one thing so real quick. I want to say, acknowledge that.
Trish Kritek (she/her): depending on your identity, this can feel like more or less of a risk. And so I think, for folks who identify as women
Trish Kritek (she/her): being seen as being emotional can be kind of where people default to thinking that they are. And
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think there's an intersection with race. So if you're a black woman, the thought that you're going to be angry is that part of this as well? So I think that has to play into the calculation for everybody, as they're thinking about how they express their emotions in these moments, and I appreciate what you said about trying to kind of keep it.
Trish Kritek (she/her): you know, for
Trish Kritek (she/her): level, as you express it. But I also just want to acknowledge that people here different folks differently, and that's a reality as well. Yeah.
Sara Kim: yeah, I agree. And there are times when full emotions may have to be expressed. But this is where we have to be trained in how to listen and how to receive these moments that people from their authentic identity are taking the risks to share.
Sara Kim: So just lasted, i'm gonna go through this a bit quickly. Just to say
Sara Kim: reframe is a difficult skill, it is. Imagine somebody says something to you. It catches your breath.
Sara Kim: it's like this intense light. No, it's passing through me.
Sara Kim: What am I going to do to open up the space and possibilities? So it's this: we're just gonna do a quick nod. So, trish.
I make decisions around here. Not you.
Sara Kim: Maybe nobody says this around our organization. But okay, I heard it. So what I might say is no doubt. Thank you for considering my ideas in your decision making. Here's what I have
Sara Kim: on my mind. It's hard. because that sometimes i'm paralyzed. It's like my head is just hit by 2 like gongs, and i'm just in that echoing the reverberating echo. But I try to do something to advocate for myself next one.
Sara Kim: Not sure if I can work with you. I have heard this before spoken to me.
Sara Kim: How I it's hard. I could say, you know I could see. Well, you know what that makes us. That's both of us. I I don't I can't I? I can't work with you either, is how I can show up. But let's see how I might reframe if we worked well together. How would you experience me?
Sara Kim: I'm just trying to open up some space and then learn something next one.
Sara Kim: Just get it done fast. Okay. And this comes from the nurses. A physician has said this. What would you do
Sara Kim: next. This is what our nurses said, Expediting. This is important to you. Here's my concern about safety.
Sara Kim: so they recognize what matters to the person, but also promote safety. N the last one
Sara Kim: you're gonna kill the patient. I i'm not a physician, but I heard that this is
Sara Kim: said in our setting, and again the colleagues have come up with. Can you click? We both care about the patient.
Sara Kim: It's kind of a creating a bigger denominator having shared stake It's it's a difficult skill, but I think it's a necessary skill, because in conflict spaces we're gonna get these
Sara Kim: beam of light that just comes at us. So what do we have next?
Trish Kritek (she/her): We have an opportunity for people to try to do it.
Sara Kim: It's all about you. Isn't it.
Trish Kritek (she/her): So this is someone saying that to me, and i'm thinking of how i'm going to reframe it and say something back to them.
Sara Kim: It's all about you. Isn't it. You just heard that.
Sara Kim: What would you say.
Sara Kim: what makes you say this
Sara Kim: collaborate? Can you share the concern? I want to make sure all of our perspective? I you know. Yeah, you're putting out your value.
Sara Kim: I like the different priorities because it's kind of a it's You're putting something out. That's it's neutral that we have different priorities.
Sara Kim: I hear frustration there. So there's bit of signaling the emotion we're both trying to solve the problem. Yeah.
Sara Kim: it's a shared stake. It's never really about one person. So all about It's about all of us. Curious
Sara Kim: again. Yeah, you state your intention
Sara Kim: and then ask a question.
Sara Kim: Sorry that it feels like this. It's not my intent. Can we talk? Well, I'm really hurt You're saying this. I love that
Sara Kim: I love that. I bet the listener will will remain in the dialogue space.
Sara Kim: Yeah, you know. And we're just talking with words. If we had time we would have each of you read this out loud.
Sara Kim: because it's not about words. It's about how it's going to be delivered
Sara Kim: wanna work toward our goal together. Can we discuss? What else are you seeing?
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think I I think I. There's a lot of embracing of curiosity and questions which I love, and I think that's good. I also like the people who are trying to say like.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I appreciate that we have different perspectives on this.
Trish Kritek (she/her): But I want to reinforce. I want to hear other people's, you know, voices or something like that where.
Trish Kritek (she/her): acknowledging that you do have a perspective, and then you're gonna to share it, and it's not just yours. It's not all about me. But I do have a perspective, and so that that that's the reframe for me. Here is like.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I'm. Still, i'm not going to let go. Of the fact that I have a perspective here, but I want to make it clear that I actually do want to hear other perspectives, too. Yeah, it's a beautiful unpacking. It's a it's really a great way to reframe.
Sara Kim: and it's a
Sara Kim: to be a collaborating style. You you advocate for your per priority as well as the other.
Sara Kim: I have let you down. I like that.
Sara Kim: Yeah.
Trish Kritek (she/her): yeah, there's a lot of really nice, I mean, I I
Sara Kim: I like saying it's not my intent. But this is where i'm coming from and tell me more. There's a lot of time more embedded here. Yeah, whenever you say, tell me more. Can we discuss, boy? You're really creating possibilities there, because more dialogue to be ahead. I think we're done
Sara Kim: with the didactic piece. Is there another slide, the second one that you have.
Sara Kim: Well, let's do it, and then we'll do the case. Discussion. You never ask for my opinion. so maybe it's a similar genre of the other one, but it will give us another chance to refrain. You never ask for my opinion
Sara Kim: for those of you. This doesn't feel comfortable. It's a great exercise, because they don't practice finding the words. It's really hard to find them when your motions are higher. At least that's my experience.
Sara Kim: This person is really, that's a that's a beautiful spirit
Sara Kim: again Another: Thank you. Thank you for letting me know.
Sara Kim: I want to hear what you want to say. Thanks for the wow.
Sara Kim: It sounds like they should teach this class. I'll work on this.
Sara Kim: Thanks for the feedback. Maybe we can say thanks for the reminder and reframe. Here is a magic about reframe. We're figuring out what is the underlying need that is coming out in this very sharp, harsh way.
Sara Kim: Clearly the person
Sara Kim: desires to have his or her, their opinion be expressed. So I I didn't mean to shout anyone now out. What have I missed? I love that
Sara Kim: beautiful question. So we have a few more colleagues typing.
Sara Kim: I'm sorry if you ever feel that way. Can you tell me a time? Yeah.
Sara Kim: be curious.
Sara Kim: That's not good as a team, you know, don't you love that? Yeah.
Sara Kim: that's not good. That's a beautiful way. It's a neutral statement. I don't want to work in a silo.
Sara Kim: or if you all of you who are typing, and those listening can say these things in the moment. Bravo to you! I cannot.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think it. Let's just say out loud. We always have, you know, in hindsight can think of the best sense to a sudden it's hard to do it in real time for all of us. But practicing helps Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you for speaking up. So yeah, this could happen along the power hierarchy
Sara Kim: it was. Never mind 10 clarifying. Didn't 10, Can you? Thank you, everyone. This is beautiful trish, I think. And then Molly says, can you talk a bit more about how power that has been?
Sara Kim: Well, i'll be happy to that's gonna so what should we do? Trish? I think you should answer that, and I think we can
Trish Kritek (she/her): be flexible. Go ahead, sir, and then we'll just have some time for questions, and it'll be good
Sara Kim: conflict situation. So what is power? Power? Is my
Sara Kim: ability to control and influence other people's, behaviors, values, and motives. That's power.
Sara Kim: How do you know I have power
Sara Kim: because of the way I make decisions and allocate resources. So
Sara Kim: in the in the spectral of power. If you're having a conversation.
Sara Kim: a lot of considerations include number One, where you're having the conversation.
Sara Kim: So, for example, if I have conflict with Trish. She's a vice team.
Sara Kim: We have a conflict. I may ask to meet her in a conference room, so the point is.
Sara Kim: I think of if I'm. In a position of power, having a kind of conversation with somebody lower than me, I think of all the ways in which I can neutralize the part. Beginning with the setting.
Sara Kim: I may also never spring up a high state conversation on them. I give them an ample opportunity to know well in advance what kind of conversation i'm gonna have.
Sara Kim: and then i'll have to state what the issue is, and let the person tell their story. I'm just gonna just pause right there. That much
Sara Kim: trish. Why, don't you keep adding
Trish Kritek (she/her): so? I think these are hard, and this is the place where I talked a little bit of before about identity and some of the challenges in those spaces. I think for me. I do often name the emotion that i'm feeling, because I think that's actually disarming often to superiors. They're not expecting you to tell them how it makes you feel.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and I think they often don't realize how that moment of conflict makes you feel that's certainly true for me as a supervisor, and so I I I think that that's one of them. The second thing that I I use in those situations
Trish Kritek (she/her): is to again come back to the naming the specific behaviors. What actually happened that's making it hard for me.
Trish Kritek (she/her): And that's another thing that's tangible that I also use in those situations.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I I all, I I think, with superiors. It's always gonna feel a lot riskier, and and that you're at, you know, and more jeopardy in those situations. And so no one can disagree with how someone, how you are feeling, though, and nobody can and can disagree about how something impacted you or hit you. So I think anchoring and those is something that that I use in those situations.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and I give them more time, and I think it through a little bit more of that, and sometimes even test it out with somebody beforehand. If it's a higher stakes conflict. I test out kind of how I might broach that that conversation, and you know.
Sara Kim: I think, having one or 2 people who you trust to have those kind of test out conversations is helpful in those situations. I think it is essential. So now i'm i'm actually reading the comment more thoughtfully. If you're having a conversation with the higher up, you have to. You have to try it out. So
my most memorable conflict was with.
Sara Kim: or it was a really difficult tension was with Dr. Carlos Pellegrini, who is a retired department of surgery chair.
Sara Kim: and I say this out of my deep, deep respect for him in terms of how he handled it.
Sara Kim: I spoke to somebody who knew him very well. and I imagine all the ways in which why he would be concerned about the issue.
Sara Kim: and how I practiced was. I walked into his office, and if you know him he's deeply charismatic individual, he told me.
Sara Kim: Speak. go ahead, Speak!
Sara Kim: That's how it opened. But I practice that I was going to ask questions and elicit his concerns first.
Sara Kim: So I said, i'm happy to share what happened. I'll be interested in hearing your perspective first.
Sara Kim: So it was my goal to elicit his story as i'm listening to his story. My brain is on task. Oh. that's helpful to hear that. Oh, we are both concerned about this issue. I don't have to bring it up.
Sara Kim: So after he was done talking. I said. Let me take a few minutes and explain
Sara Kim: what happened from my perspective. Now, if i'm very deferential, I might have said, May I take a minute, but it was so urgent I have to share my perspective. So I shared my perspective.
Sara Kim: I walked into that meeting unsure where it was going to go, and it ended with the handshake
Sara Kim: and look, and later he sent me a letter
Sara Kim: about his experience. So this is really a story about him, and it is also a story about the value of preparation.
Sara Kim: and then going into the deep sort of reservoir of everything you know about the person about the
Sara Kim: issues known and imagined.
Sara Kim: And then you go in with this story, eliciting storytelling
Sara Kim: mindset. and it's it's. It's a tracking
Sara Kim: the emotional piece where disappointments maybe you know signal
Sara Kim: where anger may be simmering
Sara Kim: it within me, and what i'm hearing, and always be
Sara Kim: a panic to the emotions in the room. I could say things. That boy, from what I'm hearing
Sara Kim: that must have been very frustrating for you. Can you tell me more? Or I always say, you know, when I heard you say this when I saw you do this, when the impact of your decision landed on me in this way.
Sara Kim: I find myself asking. Am I a valued member on your team? But it's about how I say it. It's a it's a whole
Sara Kim: body whole presence engagement to be truly authentic.
Sara Kim: No, that doesn't solve everything. But at least I have done the due diligence in stepping into that difficult space with a difficult supervisor.
Sara Kim: and at least giving dialogue a try.
Sara Kim: and then I keep my intention to try to learn something new about me about the supervisor about the issue, while I hold myself in a dignified way.
Sara Kim: and I try to mind the other person's humanity, even if they're showing up in a lesser manner.
Sara Kim: I bet we have a lot of wisdom in the crowd.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Yeah, we would welcome people's, questions, comments, you know. You can raise your hand and talk. You can put it in the chat.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I'm gonna do 2 things as you maybe think about those questions
Trish Kritek (she/her): or concerns or ideas that you have again welcome you raising your hand.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I'm gonna highlight what we've talked about, and I'm gonna ask you 2 questions. And in the meantime, if other questions bubble up, we'll be watching the chat and watching for hands.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I think
Trish Kritek (she/her): things that we hit upon is having some insight into yourself, and understanding what your default approach is.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Well, as the impact of emotion and bias in these situations is important. And so. having that insight to think through how you're coming into these spaces is really important.
As Sarah was just saying, taking the time to process before engaging in conversation is really important.
Trish Kritek (she/her): That inquiry, curiosity about what's going on with that person. Curiosity about where you have commonalities. What's your shared purpose
Trish Kritek (she/her): helping take some perspective about what that could be. Another interpretation of the story. What could be another way that this all played out?
Trish Kritek (she/her): Ground rules for dialogue include assuming positive intent, suspending your assumptions about what they're thinking already
Trish Kritek (she/her): listening, instead of getting ready to respond all the time, and balancing advocacy with inquiry. So you want to share your perspective, but also be curious about theirs.
Trish Kritek (she/her): And when personally, in moments of conflict.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Sarah's talked about kind of listening, asking those questions and actually listening, reflecting back the emotions that you're feeling, or you're hearing for framing and again coming back to those questions. And I think you modeled that beautifully.
Trish Kritek (she/her): We want to have you focus on.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Think about what you might take from this and put into action. So again I see a couple of questions coming in. But i'm going to ask everybody here to do slide on this last one, and that is to commit to one thing. You'll try out
Trish Kritek (she/her): whether that's a question you'll ask, or a phrase you might try or an approach you might do, or something that you can take to the next time that you're kind of getting into one of these sticky situation.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and and and kind of share that with all of us as we move forward.
Trish Kritek (she/her): there is a question about when you might bring in a third or third neutral party, or
Trish Kritek (she/her): bring up bringing things forward, and I would say we under utilize folks like our, but as a resource to even just bounce stuff off of somebody before moving forward. And that's, you know.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Chuck Sloane and his team. They're a really wonderful resource. So I think that's something to consider more often than we do to be honest. Now, Cindy made a good point about not always needing to make it a big deal, and sometimes, you know you don't need to do that. But I think when you're worried I think it's a good thing to consider. I'm sure Sarah has an opinion. I'm just reading this.
Trish Kritek (she/her): acknowledging my own emotional response. Stop leading. With Why? Expressing our feelings and emotions, reflecting, asking Why? Questions, question my intent before I plan my response. Like Sarah talked through
Trish Kritek (she/her): meeting person more. Yeah, that's a good thing now, particularly post pandemic.
Trish Kritek (she/her): It's not post pandemic. I I in trouble for saying that, take others perspectives and try to think about how it might impact them. Soon positive intent. Always a good reminder. Why? Questions? Listening carefully
Trish Kritek (she/her): for the other side, of not making assumptions, pausing and reframing with true true curiosity, approach with curiosity.
Trish Kritek (she/her): take a moment day to reflect before responding. Yeah, the intentional practicing, balancing, learning with preserving relationship
Trish Kritek (she/her): technology, my emotional response.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I want to figure out how to make my tone sound neutral. I don't know how I have to do some co coaching with Sarah on that one stop leading with the wine. Also manage my emotions increase. Using questions once I do not. Why I share my feelings
Trish Kritek (she/her): personally. Wear feelings. Don't create my own narrative.
Trish Kritek (she/her): starting with what versus Why, lots of those things
Trish Kritek (she/her): as a as Sarah Wax shares a little bit of her thoughts about a third party, or escalating because I wanted to do that i'm going to also put up the
Trish Kritek (she/her): on the screen. A. QR. Code for feedback for today. This is an iterative experience for for Sarah and me. We're always learning, so we would welcome your feedback, and very much want your feedback, so please feel free to scan that QR. Code and share. Share your thoughts. And with that i'm going to hand it back to Sarah.
Sara Kim: Yeah, just. I want to also underscore the value of the amber. Now they have 3 on boats at the University of Washington. They're not a reporting body. They're neutral
Sara Kim: body to be a resource to all of us. It's a confidential conversation. So that's one idea. and then
Sara Kim: trish. It's a wonderful resource, I found as a faculty, you know, just to bounce off some idea, and I've always I don't mean to crowd your
Sara Kim: calendar, but I have always benefited from her. There must be so when you think of third party.
Sara Kim: That's a formal mediation which the but can do.
Sara Kim: and so you can utilize them for one on one consultation, or that the third party, in my experience, when I was in a conflict situation, people in the department, like vice chair, stepped in as a mediator. So there are ways in which
Sara Kim: and value for having a third person. We're just not communicating. We're not listening to each other. So somebody to come in and set some ground rooms. We commonly think of common courtesy
Sara Kim: that we don't speak in derogatory inflammatory tone. We give each other ample space so to have that third person it's worth to try, instead of giving up on the one on one conversation. I do want to make this remark.
Sara Kim: I think we have to give ourselves second chances. If we know the research shows.
Sara Kim: it only takes 20 s for us to know how the conversation is going to go. The only thing we have control over is what we're going to say first.
Sara Kim: So this is why, having those discrete skills that can work in harmony in a fluid manner is important. However, we are just a human being. So if we think that statement I just uttered
Sara Kim: didn't come out right. Just say
I don't think that came out in the way I had intended.
Sara Kim: Can I? Can I redo it.
Sara Kim: you know. Yes, the person may still be sitting with the the first harsh tone, but at least giving myself, because it's better than just going down the path of the style of for the next following hour, knowing that you started on the wrong foot.
Trish Kritek (she/her): Thank you, sir. I really appreciate that perspective, because I think everybody I mean, I can tell you. I need a mulligan many times, and I think, giving ourselves permission to have to say that I think is a really good thing. I also
Trish Kritek (she/her): want to say, You know I've known Sarah for a long time, and I've watched her get more comfortable doing this as she keeps teaching and practicing about it, so it helps to keep thinking and talking about it. I'll also I
Trish Kritek (she/her): at. I am definitely not a mediator, nor am I now, but but i'm always happy to be a listener, and i'm happy to listen through what's going on with the conflict and think it through with somebody. I I can't do the I'm not going to step into that other space, but but certainly always happy to sit and kind of think it through with you if You're in the midst of something where it feels particularly sticky.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and and
Trish Kritek (she/her): maybe often with someone who's senior to you, which are superior, you know, as a supervisor, because those are particularly challenging. Okay, I'm going to stop here, and i'm going to i'm going to stop my share and say again, we welcome your feedback. If you Haven't scanned the QR. Code, the link is in the chat.
Trish Kritek (she/her): I want to say again at the end, and thank you to Lisa for her coordination. She'll share the recording and the slides.
Trish Kritek (she/her): and a big Thank you for Sarah, for, as always, not only sharing wisdom and skills, but also the personal sharing, which I think makes it all that much more real for folks. So thanks, everybody. Thanks for the 2 h out of your afternoon. I know You're busy, busy folks, and I really
Trish Kritek (she/her): inspired by so many people in our community wanting to think about how to do this better. So thank you. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Trish.